MarketWatch: Walden on Pioneerof the Nile

This is a Blood-Horse MarketWatch podcast with Elliott Walden, president and chief executive officer of WinStar Farm, which stands Pioneerof the Nile, the sire of Triple Crown winner American Pharoah.

In 1998 Elliott trained Victory Gallop to deny Bob Baffert a Triple Crown; 17 years later WinStar is standing the sire of Baffert's Triple Crown winner. So what is it like to be on this side of it?

WALDEN: Well, it has been good having had Pioneerof the Nile  , Bodemeister  , and Paynter   all trained by Bob. It's great to get to know him and we definitely have joined interests. He has trained a couple horses for us—we bought Jojo Warrior, by Pioneerof the Nile, last year from Mr. Zayat, and he trained her for us for a while; it was fun. One thing that's great about Bob is that he keeps things pretty relaxed. I was amazed at his composure last week; I would have been a nervous wreck. He just takes things in stride.

How has your relationship with Baffert changed from when you were training to now in your current role?

It has evolved well. Like I said, now we can be on the same side and we're not competitors, so from that standpoint it has done really well. I'm very, very pleased with my relationship with Bob. You know, he's going to go down as probably the greatest trainer of all time, now that he has got a Triple Crown to his credit and had another three tries at it, which is absolutely amazing. He and Todd Pletcher, to me, would go down as the best of all time. 

For Pioneerof the Nile, you told me earlier that he's a syndicated horse, a 40-share syndicate, WinStar owns 25%, and Mr. Zayat also owns a little bit, but he's in your barn so what's the day-to-day management like for him?

He's a neat horse. He has got a lot of character. He's by Empire Maker, who came with a lot of character as well—a very fiery type lineage to Empire Maker, out of a mare named Toussaud, who Juddmonte bred, and (Juddmonte Farm manager) Garrett O'Rourke said that a lot of the fieriness came from Toussaud. So he gets a little bit of that. There are a few quirks to him. He doesn't like to stand a certain way where we stand horses to show them in the stallion area; he likes to stand completely opposite, and if you try to change him, he'll change back (laughing). He's very opinionated, but a cool horse to be around. Great walk, great movement, and a great physique.

Physically what are breeders typically looking for when they send a mare to Pioneerof the Nile?

He's such a physical specimen: He's 16.2, a great walk, very correct, good bone, really pretty head. He's a lot of horse. I think from that standpoint, breeders like that because typically you get a horse that's balanced like he is and has the size, it creates a real good dynamic to improve your mare. From that standpoint, he would help any mare that comes to him. I think the only thing you might not breed to him is a big moose—a big, big mare. He's so well balanced; he has got good size, good bone, great walk, very attractive.

Have you noticed any particular pedigree elements that seem to suit him yet?

It's still early to make those (observations). You see that evolve as you get three or four seasons in. A lot of times breeders will jump on something that they first see and then it doesn't really come to fruition. But Deputy Minister works well with him. You can take Mr. Prospector back to him because he comes through the Fappiano line, which is a line which you can double Mr. Prospector very successfully. Holy Bull is the broodmare sire of Cairo Prince  . There's a lot of opportunity there.

We haven't seen anything that says, "Hey, wow, this is it." He has had a broad base. American Pharoah is out of a Yankee Gentleman   mare; Cairo Prince is out of a Holy Bull mare; Jojo Warrior is a Carson City and Deputy Minister on the bottom; Midnight Storm is a Bertrando; Vinceremos is a More Than Ready  ; Conquest Top Gun is a Jump Start  , another Seattle Slew. So he seems to be working with a broad base.

When you first stood him his fee was at $20,000 and he was still unproven. He stood for $60,000 this year, and obviously demand is going to drive the fee higher next year. How do you think he fits in with the upper echelon of stallions?

He's a horse that is definitely one of the most exciting young-horse stallions we have in the business right now. You're always looking for up-and-coming stallions because the time it takes to develop a stallion—four years before (their progeny) hits the racetrack—they're in their teens before you know it. Then they're almost on the downside of things. So you're always looking for the young stallions to come along, and his numbers to this point are really, really good. He's actually number one in the country right now with an Average Earnings Index ahead of Tapit   and others. He's number one there. He's number three on the general sires' list. He's obviously the third-crop sire champion at this point. He was the second-crop champion sire. He was second (place in his) first crop. He's ticked a lot of boxes on his way to being a very good stallion.

At the top end of our business, we don't have enough good stallions, and that's why it's so exciting to see young horses like Pioneerof the Nile and Super Saver   come along because when you have Unbridled's Song die, you have Harlan's Holiday die an untimely death, Smart Strike   getting to the end, Distorted Humor   is 22 now—still breeding a full book of mares but you just never know when the last day is coming. So you're always looking to replace those kind of horses.

I think it's extremely important for the health of a stud farm to not be stuck on one horse. If you look at Overbrook (Farm) and what happened there when Storm Cat went by the wayside, then Overbrook lost its place in the marketplace. Some of that had to do with Mr. Young, who was older, and yet a lot of it had to do with the fact that Storm Cat was the only thing going for them. So it's nice to have Pioneer, it's a blessing to have him here at the farm, it's a blessing to have Tiznow   and Speightstown  , and then you have the young horses we have: Paynter; Pioneerof the Nile; Bodemeister, who is another son of Empire Maker coming up; Super Saver; Take Charge Indy  .

Then we have some young horses that we are very excited about as well coming to stud probably this year in Constitution, Carpe Diem, and maybe Commissioner. We haven't finalized plans on those last three, but they're in the fold and looking to be in the stallion barn at some point along with Daredevil, who is a son of More Than Ready that won the Champagne (Stakes, gr. I). So it's very exciting.